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Post by FCVinyl Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:21 pm

A place for planning the preparation of PCRP v2, "An RP that even a Jared can keep up with!"
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Post by FCVinyl Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:16 pm

So, setting: 17th Century Earth Europe technology. On Earth or some other place? Is magic and/or alchemy real?

For examples of Earth and Non-Earth maps, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:51 pm

I vote for someplace else, I personally like the idea of a new world to explore.
"But to populated the 'earth' dude!" one of y'all might be saying, "That there be a lot of space." And you would be right for sure. But I have an idea. Say every person who joined added an ethnic group.
Example: Dan wants to RP as Carthia. Carthia would be his faction that he is in command of. However, by adding this nation he would also be adding the ethnic group of Carthians to the board, and as such they would hold many nations, and customs, and religions, etc. Carthians would by like saying, at broadest, Europeans. Or, at smallest, Scandinavians, per say. Therefore we can get different areas of the board populated with different groups, which in turn would be divided into different nations and such. Each group would also bring a little bit of their own history to the table, and from that we can device a very practical timeline for the universe before we set off as well. Any areas non-populated at the time will be full of (*dramatic music rises*) natives (*gasp!*). These areas can be eventual populated by people who don't join right away, as the primitives finally civilize, or can be used as land for colonization, as natives are not technically people so its fine to do that. Natives would need survival strategies and a somewhat primitive culture, but nothing that either can be made up along the way or be very character extensive. Like place holders for space until a larger power takes them over.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:01 pm

As for maps, I just found this: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Might be useful. Just make sure it's on smooth and 8000 polygons, otherwise it ain't very good.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:19 pm

For the "applications" as mentioned (off forum), in which people could, per say, summit an ethnic group, I have a few things to put in writing. First thing we'll need is a little bit of history, how your culture got to the point where it is. Second I personally think we'll want is the cultural details, some specific questions need to be developed to help delve into the workings of the ethnic groups (this selection would include things like religion/philosophies, social rankings, and such). Third would be more like necessities, which could be a branch off of culture. This would include how farming and shelter and water and such. Then we could get into politics, and how they may vary over the ethnic group. Anything else could be added as we go!
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:17 am

Old Fashioned "Europe":
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
World Map with Equatorial Lines:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Political Map of "Europe":
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Terrain Map of "Europe":
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
World Map Political:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
World Map Terrain:
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World Map with Polar Caps and Lines:
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Old Fashioned World Map:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Here are some examples of a massive map we could use!
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Post by FCVinyl Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:05 pm

Regarding application questions, I think we should have a hypothetical example sample to derive questions from and test questions on. Also, a model helps when you've got to make your own.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:01 pm

I found some good stuffs, Someone asked a ton o' Questions and I'm just gonna relay them here:

Lots O' Junk:

This happened to be the only one I could find. Nation State questions, and Europa may be helpful in this process however.
I also think maybe we should scratch the "Tech Group" idea. If we just ask questions we will know all we need to and we wont feel so confined in a box (besides who would want to pick a lower science group anyway?). I do however think we should explore the stat thing more thoroughly.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:14 pm

For Trading purposes (stolen directly from EU4):
Grain
Wine
Wool
Cloth
Fish
Fur
Salt
Naval Supplies?
Copper
Gold
Silver
Iron
Slaves
Ivory
Tea
Chinaware?
Spices
Coffee
Cotton
Sugar
Tobacco
Cocoa
Silk
Tropical Wood
Dyes

And for other notes I thought up, I think instead of religion being implemented for each nation we should come up with a few to pick from from the beginning. Aka, religions should have their own "character sheets".

Another note; there should have been and ancient empire that spoke English, so that way any languages we create will make sense to be based off of English. (Ya know, like Rome and Latin, or Greece and Greek).
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Post by FCVinyl Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:30 pm

It'd be a great idea to decide upon and populate a world. And I don't mean with people; we'd be good off to first establish the world without people: the animals, the plants, the resources, the climate and terrain itself.

From there, we could create the progenitor nation, which will both serve as our ancient history as well as our example nation that others can learn from when building their own.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:39 am

So check list:
1. Design Planet.
2. Consider Flora and Fauna/ Climate and biome.
3. Make a Raw Resource distribution map.
4. Make an ancient nation (preferably speaking English), to base our others' sheets off of.

Also I think after the nation is established we should create a few major religion templates as I suggested. This way religion isn't so chaotic with every country having their own and such that would be bad. We need to develop a Catholicism for our Europe, so that the major reason for war isn't crusade. Also magic; I think it should be included in a sort of witchcraft sort of way. As in there is magic, but to do anything with it would be so dark and so evil that by law you probably can't touch it. In the same way miracles from prayer should also be possible, but they won't be used to help in war or anything except under very special circumstances.

So for step one, is my map cool, or should we try and make a few more options or go down an entirely different route? If we do use it, step 1 is done, and step two comes next.


Last edited by The Paladin Gamer on Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:55 am

For number 2 I have a list of ecosystems in a book I own. From that I can generate a list which we can use to cover the world with. Maybe tweak them a bit so their more original, but at least at that point we have something to go off of.

Scratch that I have a better idea, which I will place here when I'm done with it:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's still not done, but you can get the idea.


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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:13 pm

Could be useful:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And for my old friend:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:43 pm

Oh and I have a task for you Dan while I work on this: Star/ Constellation/ Solar System Map. Do it for all our navigation and astrology purposes!
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Post by FCVinyl Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:18 pm

I've got a book made by conworlders, for conworlders. A good third of it is just all about planets, from their solar system to their islands. I'll consult with it and try and generate a few options for us. For continent shapes, I think we should go with utilizing that polygon generator... thing, it's got some good algorithms behinds it. Alternatively, fantasynamegenerator has a great map building feature, which involves tilesets, and was what I used when I made the non-Earth map for the FCRP 17th Century universe.

Regarding astronomy, I'll try and find that program where you can look around from any point in the galaxy. If you've got any specific locations to view from in mind, I'll see about getting shots from there.
EDIT: Found it, it's called Space Engine. Also, it's not limited to just the Milky Way. Though, I'd imagine, it gets less accurate and more procedurally generated the further from Sol you go.
EDIT2: Some sample starfields: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (Taken from distant locations from Sol, but still within roughly the same radius from the centre as Sol)

The matter of the solar system, however, depends. Do we want many or few planets? Should the main planet be a terran Earthlike, or just 'Earth' with different landmasses? What sort of variety should there be with the planets and moons of this system? Should the star be Sun-like, or just 'Sol'? Should there be multiple stars, and if so, how many, and in what configuration (binary pair, one orbiting another from a distance, etc)? Personally, I'm in favour of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Regarding religion, yeah, at least getting some ancient religions (that modern ones split from, evolved from, defied outright, or just plain revived) sorted out would benefit us greatly.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:09 am

I personally would like to use the map I've made now, if that's okay. I just worked on it for roughly 4 hours on an example map that I'm planning on posting, and would hate to see all that work go to naught. If a far better solution comes out however, I can part with the work.
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Post by FCVinyl Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:20 am

Well, once we settle on landmasses and astronomical data on the planet, we can generate the climates and biomes and distribute resources.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:39 pm

The map I'm currently working on is a biome distribution map. It divides it up into specific areas which we can make unique regions for flora, and fauna, and climate purposes. Also, since I have more time to post now (my last one was made while being rushed off to church) I approve of the solar system model, but I'm curious the effects the two suns would have. I personally think we should keep this fairly close to what actual 1600 earth. I feel like if we make it too different it won't feel like a 1600 roll play anymore. I do however think it needs to be different enough to allow for creativity. So maybe changing shapes, names, and other details, but while keeping the basic philosophy, tech, and theme is the route we should shoot for.
So before the end of today, I should have a sectioned off map for all our biome and recourse purposes.
Fantasy Name Generator has a vast amount of resources for us I've just realized, and it's map gen would be very nice for small region maps and other important details as such (as the other one is only really good for large scale mapping).
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:27 pm

A partial map was Placed back on the old post. So you can see were I'm going with this region idea I came up with.

Also I just realized the beauty of the Armor generator on FNG (Fantasy name gen). Anyone can make solders if they want for really easy, and their also easy to customize for those who wish to. It could be very useful.
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Post by FCVinyl Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:56 pm

Reviewing your map, it would not likely be very conducive to the kind of massive, sprawling empire that the progenitor nation would have to sort of be in order for us to descend from it. Secondarily, there isn't much potential diversity in climates. Also, regarding naming, arbitrary cool-sounding names are not preferred over descriptive names (EG, name a marsh Wallowlands instead of Flyntar), which fosters diversity in naming, and is more realistic in a world with English but no Latin or Greek. Our current names for places seem a bit exotic, a bit unique, but, really, in Latin, they have far more mundane meanings (Australia is South Place, Oceania is Ocean Place, The Orient (East Asia) is East Place, etc). Names have meanings, usually descriptive ones, whether the people who say them know the meaning or not.

In [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], the two main masses of land are very consistent over large areas, which is important to maintaining agriculture and population across a massive empire. Also, the less water/more land between nations facilitates a more involved RP, as, as has been discussed, not only is naval combat terrible, but messaging by boat is is also terrible. Nations separated by other nations and/or water are far less likely to even attempt communication than if they are able to neighbor. More land/less ocean facilitates many neighbors.

Y'see, how your map "fails" is that what you'll end up with is your biomes will be all spread out in isolated pockets, which is bad, as such a thing limited the growth a nation. The crops and animals you have in the marine biomes, along the western coasts and west of their mountains, won't transition well into the climates that will surround them, namely mediterranean and humid continental, as well as the reverse. This will also apply to people: You can't expect someone from the British highlands to survive well in Florida, and with only the resources they brought from Scotland and whatever they can manage to scavenge in the rather alien environment.
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:48 pm

Y'see I think you underestimate the scale of my land.
The names I literally scrapped together on a whim, and literally only two of them actually mean anything (which are the two "American continents"). The names I have no connection to and would gladly change them all.

But it is the biomes that you and I am in disagreement on. The biomes in my map strive over vast areas of land and are not in pockets like your suggesting. In fact if you pulled up a map of the world and pulled out all the biomes, they are not nice and bunched together like they are on your continents. Europe alone has a vast array of biomes together, ranging from arid to fjord. Biomes don't go nicely together on Earth (I mean your not going to have the taiga right next to the tropics, but you can have a desert right next to a rain forest, which my map never does by the way). But I do understand where your coming from, and I think it actually comes from a miss interpenetration of the map. Not all tan areas would be like the Sahara, I would even pit Oklahoma or Spain under the Tan area. I think your continent is just to orderly for earth-like conditions. I understand empires for easier like that, but it just isn't realistic. I mean look at western Washington verses eastern! My biome mat doesn't even account for that small of difference. But back to empires, we must remember: Rome itself formed in a very diverse climate range and biome coverage, especially when it came and took over the Celts. Italy is very different from heck even Greece, let alone Egypt, or Persia. Egypt isn't close to Israel's biome, and their neighbors. I can see where your coming from, and it makes sense, considering your love of spaceships and stuff you like order of sort. Earth, however is not like that.

Also on navies: Greece was a primarily naval community; and no one walked around the Mediterranean. Bodies of water actually rarely divert population growth, and in fact usually strengthen it. The Romans came across the Egyptians long before the Celts, who literally lived in northern Italy.

However, for self criticisms sake, I don't care for the mountain range distribution, which I find really unrealistic (them all being in the centers and all). Also I don't care for the fact that we can't create the silk road either (unless it comes from the south). We'll debate this more in school tomorrow.
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Post by FCVinyl Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Regarding biomes: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It's not too accurate, it was a bit of a rush, and I didn't have current and wind maps to work with, but it gets the point across. Do note, I used a centered equator, accounting for a world with the same astronomical data as Earth.

As for my assessment of the biomes on your map (prior to my quick mock-up), I disregarded the sort of satellite view, looking at its features: Mountains, water, and latitudes. I must admit though, I was rather mistaken. However, what you have is worse than pocketed biomes, you've got massively connected biomes, running in bands one might only see on the geological equivalent of Daisy World. Also, the amount of equatorial land is simply astounding, most nations would be all but forced to be the sorts one'd find in Greece, Italy, and North Africa, rather than even just a bit North into Europe, like most nations probably want to be.

Further, regarding sizing, mine has the same dimensions of Earth. For reference, at the end of the album I've got several squares which are the scale with France, Texas, the whole of Europe, and The Roman Empire, respectively. As for your map, either your world is closer to Luna than Earth, or you've got a dire case of Japan-itis. To quote a concerned Futurecraftian, "it looks [..] like the terrain was made by [...] someone who has never seen maps of anything other than Japan." Which, of course, we both know is actually untrue, but it's still a valid point.

As for the biomes of the Roman Empire, as you can see, not only are the biomes not at all very stark comparatively, but they're quite compatible. The same crops can grow between them with ease, as can the same animals, and the same people. That is the stuff that breeds nations (pre-industrial, at least). We want tracts that can foster empires. But, we don't want 70% of our nations to be basically homogenous, we need diversity, which your map simply doesn't provide. And, to clarify, biome placement on both our maps has not been arbitary; there are basic rules and conditions that allows the formation of each, and the exclusion of others. It's a matter of how land is distributed along the face, and, not only does the map I supplied fulfill this better, its coastlines are more realistic - only under certain conditions (mostly small oceanic islands formed via volcanic activity, such is the kind that the generator you use supplies) do coastlines even look like that, all squiggly and amorphous; real coastlines have arcing beaches, gouging bays, proper inland seas, and least of all sweeping archipelagos that are all that remain from long-sunk land.

In regards to names: Then why'd you put 'em on in the first place, eh?
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Post by The Paladin Gamer Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:14 pm

Any progress on the English speaking Rome? Where are you planning on putting them on the map?
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Post by FCVinyl Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:44 pm

Maps of the two empires of antiquity:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Post by FCVinyl Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Prototype country sheet:

BASICS:

POLITICS:

MILITARY:

GEOGRAPHY:

INHABITANTS:

ECONOMY:

OPTIONAL:

NOTES:


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